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[Talk-cz] [OSM-talk] Critical Mass for license change-over

Vlákno 27.1. - 2.2.2012, počet zpráv: 3


27.1.2012 09:14:19 (#1)
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LM_1

<flukas.robot+osm at gmail.com>
103
Na glob?ln? mailing list (talk at osm.org) p?i?la zpr?va od licen?n? skupiny (LWG). M?j osobn? n?zor: Kritick? mno?stv? by m?lo b?t p?es 99 %, m?la by b?t del?? doba, kdy je zn?m zp?sob ur?en?, kter? data budou zachov?na, ale ostatn? je?t? nebudou odstran?na. Luk?? (LM_1) tady je shrnut?____________________________________________- S postupem procesu zm?ny licence bylo dosa?eno shody, ?e (aby nedo?lo k ztr?t? nep?im??en?ho mno?stv? dat) f?ze 5 (vlastn? p?epnut? licence) by m?la prob?hnout a? po dosa?en? "kritick?ho mno?stv?". Ot?zka je, jestli si mysl?te, ?e kritick?ho mno?stv? bylo dosa?eno? Zpr?va LWG: LWG je p?esv?d?ena, ?e kritick?ho mno?stv? bylo dosa?eno, st?le pokra?uje snaha o kontaktov?n? nerozhodnut?ch p?isp?vatel?, N?kolik odm?taj?c?ch laskav? dovolilo pokra?ov?n? v u??v?n? jejich p??sp?vk? po zaji?t?n?, ?e jejich obavy/probl?my jsou zn?m?. V?bor OSMF po??dal o sm??ov?n? zm?ny k 1. 4. Dobr? ??sla: Pod novou licenc? aktivn? p?isp?v? n?kolik set tis?c u?ivatel?, v?slovn? odm?tlo 420. 97.1% of uzl? [2] a 96.6% of cest bylo vytvo?eno souhlas?c?mi u?ivateli, n?kter? mohly b?t pozd?ji zm?n?ny. Podle aktu?ln?ch ??sel je 3,2 mil. cest z 120 mil. n?jak problematick?ch - to je 2,68 %. => 97,32% p?ipravenost. Nebojte se zpochybnit. A co negativn? faktory? - subjektivn? krit?ria 100 nemocnic je v?znam?j?? ne? p?r milion? importovan?ch uzl?. Ztr?ta opakovateln?ho importu m??e b?t ?patn? kv?li n?sledn?m editac?m. - existuj? region?ln? [2,4] rozd?ly, v n?kter?ch oblastech je situace hor?? ne? vypl?v? z uveden?ch ??sel. Pou?ijete OSMI License View tool [5]. -st?le je asi 35000 star??ch p?isp?vatel?, kte?? neodpov?d?li. Je mezi nimi mnoho lid?, kte?? zmapovali men?? m?sto, p?estali a neodpov?daj? - na n?rodn? ?rovni se ?e?? specifick? probl?my v ?esk? republice a Polsku. V n?kter?ch zem?ch (viz origin?l) jsou probl?my region?ln?, v N?mecku je hodn? od u?ivatel?, kte?? vysloven? odm?tli. V Lib?rii a na Kypru jsou v?znamn? p?isp?vatel?, kte?? neodpov?d?li. V Japonsku je jeden v?znamn? p?isp?vatel, kter? odm?tl, ale jedn? se import POI. - http://odbl.de/ [4] ukazuje pesimisti?t?j?? obraz, pravd?podobn? kv?li boty, kter? jsou ne?kodn? Kone?n? "nov?" je na http://cleanmap.poole.ch B??? na n?jak? ple?ce, tak?e m?jte pochopen? pro pomalost a zkuste to za chv?li znovu Mike N?sleduje p?vodn? zpr?va____________________________________________ This is a report from the License Working Group and a request for feedback. If anyone can do translations or summaries for other language mailing lists, I would be very grateful. Our moderators have agreed that this is a general topic of concern to the whole OSM community. If you are a continuing mapper, please feel free to respond and give your opinion. Only strictly "legal" questions will be pointed at legal-talk list. As the license change process evolved, concern was expressed that an unacceptable amount of data might be lost from the current version of the OSM database and consensus was reached that phase 5 [1] - the actual license cut-over - should only happen when a "critical mass" was achieved. The question I ask you is, do you agree that we have reached critical mass? Here is our report. I and the License Working Group think we clearly have reached critical mass and that the situation will only improve over the next few weeks. An intense effort is being made to reach still undecided mappers. We have already asked your help in the UK, Philippines, Canada and USA. We will go global soon. A number of decliners have also kindly allowed us to continue using their contributions after making sure that their concerns were known. A few more may still do so. The OSM Foundation board has asked us to target April 1st for the change-over. First, the good numbers. Several hundred thousand mappers are now actively mapping under the new contributor terms. Only 420 older contributors have currently explicitly declined. At least 97.1% of nodes [2] and 96.6% of highways [2] in the current database were created by continuing mappers. However, some of those may have been edited later. From up-to-date figures, [3], it looks as though 3.2M out of 120M ways are problematic in some way. That is 2.68%. It is declining. So, if we can use just one figure, I suggest we could be at 97.32% readiness ... feel free to challenge! But what about negative factors? - There are subjective criteria. The removal of 100 hospital nodes may be far worse than than the removal of several million import points. ... Or the loss of a repeatable import may be bad because folks have editted over the top. It is difficult to judge whether this has a positive or negative bias overall. - There are regional and country [2, 4] variations. You might be in an area where there are bigger problems than than implied by the figures I have given you. The easiest way to see this is with OSMI License View tool [5] . - We still have not been able to get responses from about 35,000 older contributors who have mapped at least one node. Sorry, this is an approximate figure at the moment. One impact of this is that there are a lot of folks who have mapped a small town, stopped mapping and have not responded. - On a national level, there are still specific issues we are working on in Poland and the Czech Republic. In Australia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia and, on a regional basis, in Germany there large concentrations of data by folks who have specifically declined. In Liberia and Cyprus, there are key large contributors who have so far not responded. In Japan, there is also one very large contributor who has declined, but we understand this is a POI import that will be dropped. - http://odbl.de/ [4] gives a more pessimistic view than the numbers I have given you. This is probably due to bot edits and changes which are harmless, but should be taken into consideration. And, lastly, you can see what the "new" map will look like if we changed over today at http://cleanmap.poole.ch/. This is running on a small machine, so please be patient and try again later if lot's of folks are hitting it. Mike License Working Group [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan#PHASE_5_aka_Done_-_License_Cut-over_from_CC-BY-SA_to_ODbL_.28date_to_be_decided.2C_depends_on_the_technical_work.29 [2] http://odbl.poole.ch/ (based on early December data) [3] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html [4] http://odbl.de/ [5] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe

27.1.2012 10:21:43 (#2)
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jzvc

<jzvc at tpfree.net>
531
Dne 27.1.2012 21:14, LM_1 napsal(a): zobrazit citaci
> Na glob?ln? mailing list (talk at osm.org) p?i?la zpr?va od licen?n? skupiny (LWG). > M?j osobn? n?zor: Kritick? mno?stv? by m?lo b?t p?es 99 %, m?la by b?t > del?? doba, kdy je zn?m zp?sob ur?en?, kter? data budou zachov?na, ale > ostatn? je?t? nebudou odstran?na. > Luk?? (LM_1) > > tady je shrnut?____________________________________________- > > S postupem procesu zm?ny licence bylo dosa?eno shody, ?e (aby nedo?lo > k ztr?t? nep?im??en?ho mno?stv? dat) f?ze 5 (vlastn? p?epnut? licence) > by m?la prob?hnout a? po dosa?en? "kritick?ho mno?stv?". > Ot?zka je, jestli si mysl?te, ?e kritick?ho mno?stv? bylo dosa?eno? > Zpr?va LWG: > LWG je p?esv?d?ena, ?e kritick?ho mno?stv? bylo dosa?eno, st?le > pokra?uje snaha o kontaktov?n? nerozhodnut?ch p?isp?vatel?, N?kolik > odm?taj?c?ch laskav? dovolilo pokra?ov?n? v u??v?n? jejich p??sp?vk? > po zaji?t?n?, ?e jejich obavy/probl?my jsou zn?m?. V?bor OSMF po??dal > o sm??ov?n? zm?ny k 1. 4. > Dobr? ??sla: > Pod novou licenc? aktivn? p?isp?v? n?kolik set tis?c u?ivatel?, > v?slovn? odm?tlo 420. 97.1% of uzl? [2] a 96.6% of cest bylo > vytvo?eno souhlas?c?mi u?ivateli, n?kter? mohly b?t pozd?ji zm?n?ny. > Podle aktu?ln?ch ??sel je 3,2 mil. cest z 120 mil. n?jak > problematick?ch - to je 2,68 %. => 97,32% p?ipravenost. Nebojte se > zpochybnit.
Sem se mrknul na takovy pidimestecko jako je Berlin, nebudu zjistovat %, na to opravdu chut nemam, bohate mi staci, ze zmizi silnice prvnich trid, zjevne i casti dalnic, samozrejme spousta ulic ... (by woko tak 30%) => by woko 2 roky prace v trapu. Nu coz, beru to jako pouceni do budoucna - zasadne neprispivat do zadneho open projektu, natoz udelat takovou blbost, jako odsouhlasit zmenu licence. Z pouzitelny mapy se stane naprosto nepouzitelny bazmek. zobrazit citaci
> > A co negativn? faktory? > - subjektivn? krit?ria 100 nemocnic je v?znam?j?? ne? p?r milion? > importovan?ch uzl?. Ztr?ta opakovateln?ho importu m??e b?t ?patn? > kv?li n?sledn?m editac?m. > - existuj? region?ln? [2,4] rozd?ly, v n?kter?ch oblastech je situace > hor?? ne? vypl?v? z uveden?ch ??sel. Pou?ijete OSMI License View tool > [5]. > -st?le je asi 35000 star??ch p?isp?vatel?, kte?? neodpov?d?li. Je mezi > nimi mnoho lid?, kte?? zmapovali men?? m?sto, p?estali a neodpov?daj? > - na n?rodn? ?rovni se ?e?? specifick? probl?my v ?esk? republice a > Polsku. V n?kter?ch zem?ch (viz origin?l) jsou probl?my region?ln?, v > N?mecku je hodn? od u?ivatel?, kte?? vysloven? odm?tli. V Lib?rii a na > Kypru jsou v?znamn? p?isp?vatel?, kte?? neodpov?d?li. V Japonsku je > jeden v?znamn? p?isp?vatel, kter? odm?tl, ale jedn? se import POI. > - http://odbl.de/ [4] ukazuje pesimisti?t?j?? obraz, pravd?podobn? > kv?li boty, kter? jsou ne?kodn? > > Kone?n? "nov?" je na http://cleanmap.poole.ch B??? na n?jak? ple?ce, > tak?e m?jte pochopen? pro pomalost a zkuste to za chv?li znovu > Mike > > N?sleduje p?vodn? zpr?va____________________________________________ > > This is a report from the License Working Group and a request for > feedback. If anyone can do translations or summaries for other > language mailing lists, I would be very grateful. > > Our moderators have agreed that this is a general topic of concern to > the whole OSM community. If you are a continuing mapper, please feel > free to respond and give your opinion. Only strictly "legal" questions > will be pointed at legal-talk list. > > As the license change process evolved, concern was expressed that an > unacceptable amount of data might be lost from the current version of > the OSM database and consensus was reached that phase 5 [1] - the > actual license cut-over - should only happen when a "critical mass" > was achieved. > > The question I ask you is, do you agree that we have reached critical mass? > > Here is our report. > > I and the License Working Group think we clearly have reached critical > mass and that the situation will only improve over the next few weeks. > An intense effort is being made to reach still undecided mappers. We > have already asked your help in the UK, Philippines, Canada and USA. > We will go global soon. A number of decliners have also kindly allowed > us to continue using their contributions after making sure that their > concerns were known. A few more may still do so. The OSM Foundation > board has asked us to target April 1st for the change-over. > > First, the good numbers. > > Several hundred thousand mappers are now actively mapping under the > new contributor terms. Only 420 older contributors have currently > explicitly declined. At least 97.1% of nodes [2] and 96.6% of > highways [2] in the current database were created by continuing > mappers. However, some of those may have been edited later. From > up-to-date figures, [3], it looks as though 3.2M out of 120M ways are > problematic in some way. That is 2.68%. It is declining. So, if we > can use just one figure, I suggest we could be at 97.32% readiness ... > feel free to challenge! > > But what about negative factors? > > - There are subjective criteria. The removal of 100 hospital nodes > may be far worse than than the removal of several million import > points. ... Or the loss of a repeatable import may be bad because > folks have editted over the top. It is difficult to judge whether this > has a positive or negative bias overall. > > - There are regional and country [2, 4] variations. You might be in an > area where there are bigger problems than than implied by the figures > I have given you. The easiest way to see this is with OSMI License > View tool [5] . > > - We still have not been able to get responses from about 35,000 older > contributors who have mapped at least one node. Sorry, this is an > approximate figure at the moment. One impact of this is that there are > a lot of folks who have mapped a small town, stopped mapping and have > not responded. > > - On a national level, there are still specific issues we are working > on in Poland and the Czech Republic. In Australia, Montenegro, > Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia and, on a regional basis, in Germany there > large concentrations of data by folks who have specifically declined. > In Liberia and Cyprus, there are key large contributors who have so > far not responded. In Japan, there is also one very large contributor > who has declined, but we understand this is a POI import that will be > dropped. > > - http://odbl.de/ [4] gives a more pessimistic view than the numbers I > have given you. This is probably due to bot edits and changes which > are harmless, but should be taken into consideration. > > > And, lastly, you can see what the "new" map will look like if we > changed over today at http://cleanmap.poole.ch/. This is running on a > small machine, so please be patient and try again later if lot's of > folks are hitting it. > > > Mike > License Working Group > > [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Implementation_Plan#PHASE_5_aka_Done_-_License_Cut-over_from_CC-BY-SA_to_ODbL_.28date_to_be_decided.2C_depends_on_the_technical_work.29 > > [2] http://odbl.poole.ch/ (based on early December data) > > [3] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html > > [4] http://odbl.de/ > > [5] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-cz mailing list > Talk-cz at openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz

2.2.2012 12:37:20 (#3)
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Pavel Machek

<pavel at ucw.cz>
1036 1226
Ahoj! zobrazit citaci
> > S postupem procesu zm?ny licence bylo dosa?eno shody, ?e (aby nedo?lo > > k ztr?t? nep?im??en?ho mno?stv? dat) f?ze 5 (vlastn? p?epnut? licence) > > by m?la prob?hnout a? po dosa?en? "kritick?ho mno?stv?". > > Ot?zka je, jestli si mysl?te, ?e kritick?ho mno?stv? bylo dosa?eno? > > Zpr?va LWG: > > LWG je p?esv?d?ena, ?e kritick?ho mno?stv? bylo dosa?eno, st?le > > pokra?uje snaha o kontaktov?n? nerozhodnut?ch p?isp?vatel?, N?kolik > > odm?taj?c?ch laskav? dovolilo pokra?ov?n? v u??v?n? jejich p??sp?vk? > > po zaji?t?n?, ?e jejich obavy/probl?my jsou zn?m?. V?bor OSMF po??dal > > o sm??ov?n? zm?ny k 1. 4. > > Dobr? ??sla: > > Pod novou licenc? aktivn? p?isp?v? n?kolik set tis?c u?ivatel?, > > v?slovn? odm?tlo 420. 97.1% of uzl? [2] a 96.6% of cest bylo > > vytvo?eno souhlas?c?mi u?ivateli, n?kter? mohly b?t pozd?ji zm?n?ny. > > Podle aktu?ln?ch ??sel je 3,2 mil. cest z 120 mil. n?jak > > problematick?ch - to je 2,68 %. => 97,32% p?ipravenost. Nebojte se > > zpochybnit. > > Sem se mrknul na takovy pidimestecko jako je Berlin, nebudu zjistovat %, > na to opravdu chut nemam, bohate mi staci, ze zmizi silnice prvnich > trid, zjevne i casti dalnic, samozrejme spousta ulic ... (by woko tak > 30%) => by woko 2 roky prace v trapu. Nu coz, beru to jako pouceni do > budoucna - zasadne neprispivat do zadneho open projektu, natoz udelat > takovou blbost, jako odsouhlasit zmenu licence. Z pouzitelny mapy se > stane naprosto nepouzitelny bazmek.
Co takhle napsat na license working group a stahnout souhlas? Pavel -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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