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[Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

Vlákno 12.11. - 13.11.2017, počet zpráv: 9


12.11.2017 07:46:29 (#1)
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Tobias Zwick

<osm at westnordost.de>
3
Hi, I am the author of StreetComplete, an Android app with with which surveyors can add data to the map directly. More Info here: https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete Amongst other things, the app incites its users to add housenumbers to buildings. I have read that in your country, most (all?) housenumbers are imported from an official source. But it is not clear to me whether this happens regularly, if this means that housenumbers should not be added from OSM users etc. On the wiki documentation https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses#Country_specific_rules_and_sources , it is only documented that a housenumber (possibly?) has more than just a housenumber, but also a conscription number etc. So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app. Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made. To help you decide on this, here are some facts about what the app does: When are users prompted to enter a housenumber? ----------------------------------------------- 1. Exclusively for buildings tagged as house, residential, apartments, detached, terrace, hotel, dormitory, houseboat, school, civic, college, university, public, hospital, kindergarten, train_station, retail, commercial. Notably not for building=yes 2. Only for buildings which do not contain (or contain on outline) any node that is tagged with a housenumber or -name 3. Only for buildings that are not contained in a larger area that already has a housenumber or -name (such as schools, hospitals, campuses etc) What tags do the users enter? ----------------------------- Users can enter either a addr:housenumber or a addr:housename. Alternatively, they can leave an OSM note in which they can explain the situation and optionally attach a photo. No tags are replaced by this app, the users can only add data. They can neither delete previously entered housenumbers nor merge housenumbers from nodes onto a building outline and as said above, are also not prompted to supply a housenumber for buildings that already contain a housenumber node. By the way, if there are certain , i.e. that the housenumber is not sufficient because there are other numbers as well on the housenumber sign (conscriptionnumber, streetnumber, provisionalnumber), then, the form to input the housenumber could be adapted for within the Czech Republic to also ask for the conscription number (etc?). But first I need to know if adding housenumbers via this app in your country is something that makes sense at all. ----------------------------- You might want to follow the forum thread in the Norway and Netherlands forum where I asked the same question: Norway - https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=671651 Netherlands - https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=671650 I also asked the same question on the Denmark mailing list. (All of the above countries do regular imports of housenumbers from an official source). Cheers Tobias

12.11.2017 08:07:25 (#2)
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Marián Kyral

<mkyral at email.cz>
2272 2475
Hi Tobias, Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a): zobrazit citaci
> Hi, I am the author of StreetComplete, an Android app with with which > surveyors can add data to the map directly. More Info here: > https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete > > Amongst other things, the app incites its users to add housenumbers to > buildings. I have read that in your country, most (all?) housenumbers > are imported from an official source. But it is not clear to me whether > this happens regularly, if this means that housenumbers should not be > added from OSM users etc.
Yes, data are irregularly updated. Usually once per month. See http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/CzechAddress/history zobrazit citaci
> On the wiki documentation > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses#Country_specific_rules_and_sources > , it is only documented that a housenumber (possibly?) has more than > just a housenumber, but also a conscription number etc. > > So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers > on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app. > Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.
Well, some users in past mapped addresses on outlines. We did not retag them. Import script is able to handle such situation. Regarding rest of your email below, I don't think that, right now, we need any address complementation in Czech Republic. But we are using almost the same system as Slovakia and they are still collecting addresses. Thanks for StreetComplete and best regards, Marián zobrazit citaci
> To help you decide on this, here are some facts about what the app does: > > When are users prompted to enter a housenumber? > ----------------------------------------------- > > 1. Exclusively for buildings tagged as house, residential, apartments, > detached, terrace, hotel, dormitory, houseboat, school, civic, > college, university, public, hospital, kindergarten, train_station, > retail, commercial. Notably not for building=yes > > 2. Only for buildings which do not contain (or contain on outline) any > node that is tagged with a housenumber or -name > > 3. Only for buildings that are not contained in a larger area that > already has a housenumber or -name (such as schools, hospitals, > campuses etc) > > What tags do the users enter? > ----------------------------- > > Users can enter either a addr:housenumber or a addr:housename. > Alternatively, they can leave an OSM note in which they can explain the > situation and optionally attach a photo. > No tags are replaced by this app, the users can only add data. They can > neither delete previously entered housenumbers nor merge housenumbers > from nodes onto a building outline and as said above, are also not > prompted to supply a housenumber for buildings that already contain a > housenumber node. > > By the way, if there are certain , i.e. that the housenumber is not > sufficient because there are other numbers as well on the housenumber > sign (conscriptionnumber, streetnumber, provisionalnumber), then, the > form to input the housenumber could be adapted for within the Czech > Republic to also ask for the conscription number (etc?). > But first I need to know if adding housenumbers via this app in your > country is something that makes sense at all. > > ----------------------------- > > You might want to follow the forum thread in the Norway and Netherlands > forum where I asked the same question: > Norway - https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=671651 > Netherlands - https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=671650 > I also asked the same question on the Denmark mailing list. > > (All of the above countries do regular imports of housenumbers from an > official source). > > Cheers > Tobias > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-cz mailing list > Talk-cz at openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz

12.11.2017 10:28:55 (#3)
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Tobias Zwick

<osm at westnordost.de>
3
Hi Marián Not sure if I understand you correctly, just to be in the clear: So, you have a source from which you irregularly update the addresses from. That source is also kept up-to-date and that is why it makes little sense for surveyors (be it via StreetComplete or using field papers and JOSM/etc) to add housenumber data and/or is even disruptive. Correct? Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers? Cheers Tobias

12.11.2017 10:46:01 (#4)
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Jan Martinec

<jan at martinec.name>
410 2476
Hello Tobias, Almost correct: - The source we're using is the official, canonical government house registry, which is up-to-date pretty much by definition. - The update interval is fairly regular, albeit long (~monthly, see also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address_import_from_RUIAN ). - This is one of the reasons adding address points manually is problematic, the other reason is that a building *usually* (but not always!) has two different address numbers (one derived from position in street, the other assigned by an opaque bureaucratic process). I've seen address points with 0-3 numbers assigned...it's complicated. (I have no idea how this works in Slovakia.) Btw, thank you for StreetComplete, it's a great tool :) Cheers, Honza "Piškvor" Martinec Dne 12. 11. 2017 22:29 napsal uživatel "Tobias Zwick" <osm at westnordost.de>: Hi Marián Not sure if I understand you correctly, just to be in the clear: So, you have a source from which you irregularly update the addresses from. That source is also kept up-to-date and that is why it makes little sense for surveyors (be it via StreetComplete or using field papers and JOSM/etc) to add housenumber data and/or is even disruptive. Correct? Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers? Cheers Tobias _______________________________________________ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/attachments/20171112/965f9699/attachment.html>

13.11.2017 06:35:08 (#5)
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Marián Kyral

<mkyral at email.cz>
2272 2475
Hi Tobias,
---------- Původní e-mail ---------- Od: Tobias Zwick <osm at westnordost.de> Komu: Marián Kyral <mkyral at email.cz> Datum: 12. 11. 2017 22:28:58 Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete "Hi Marián Not sure if I understand you correctly, just to be in the clear: "" So, you have a source from which you irregularly update the addresses from. That source is also kept up-to-date and that is why it makes little sense for surveyors (be it via StreetComplete or using field papers and JOSM/etc) to add housenumber data and/or is even disruptive. Correct? " Sorry for confusing you. As described by Jan Martinec, we are using official up to date government data.   " Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers? " For historic reasons, we have common address system. It is described there (unfortunately only in Czech :-( ): https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs: WikiProjekt_%C4%8Cesko/Syst%C3%A9m_adres In short, we are using: addr:conscriptionnumber (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr:conscriptionnumber)=* Conscription number  -  Only number addr:provisionalnumber (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr:provisionalnumber)=* Provisional number  -  Only number (according to wiki, not used in Slovakia at all) addr:streetnumber (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr:streetnumber)=* Street number  -  Number or number with letter (e.g. "1", "5d") (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr) addr:housenumber(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr)=* House number  Only conscription or provisional number. Not both. If street number exists then use:  conscription (provisional) number / street number Otherwise only conscription (provisional) number E.g.: 1367            - conscription number 1367/67     - conscription number / street number 2238/1a     - conscription number / street number ev.21            - provisional number   (not in SK) ev.21/1       - provisional number / street number   (not in SK) In Slovakia, they don't have access to official government data and they are collecting addresses from various sources. Survey, local imports... StreetComplete can be usefull for them. Regards, Marián ------------- další část --------------- HTML příloha byla odstraněna... URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/attachments/20171113/baf72238/attachment-0001.html>

13.11.2017 08:51:25 (#6)
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Martin Ždila

<martin.zdila at freemap.sk>
130
Hi Tobias, On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Tobias Zwick <osm at westnordost.de> wrote: zobrazit citaci
> Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards > to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers? >
In Slovakia we have so far imported housenumbers of many places but also many are still missing. We have a wiki page related to this at http://wiki.freemap.sk/SupisneCislaKapor. Recently a new source of addresses has opened for us so we are planning to do another big import. You can read it ad https://groups.google.com/ forum/#!topic/osm_sk/nV3b2l7ZSnI (also in Slovak language). For more details please ask on osm_sk at googlegroups.com because I am directly not working on it. Best regards -- Martin Ždila <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/*Martin*> OZ Freemap Slovakia tel:+421-908-363-848 mailto:martin.zdila at freemap.sk http://www.freemap.sk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/attachments/20171113/37bfae92/attachment.html>

13.11.2017 10:03:00 (#7)
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Miroslav Suchy

<miroslav at suchy.cz>
570 4011
Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a): zobrazit citaci
> So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers > on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app. > Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.
I agree that you can disable housenumbers for Czechia. When I am using StreetComplete and it is asking me about the housenumber is is because: * the housenumber is not put inside of the building area and is just slightly off. This is because the centroid from government has incorrect GPS data. In this case (90% of houses without housenumber) adding new number is wrong. The correct way is just to move point with housenumber inside of the area of building. * the house does not have housenumber because it is, in fact, part of the building (garage, barn, etc.) Mirek P.S. Thank you for StreetComplete. It is the awesome tool.

13.11.2017 10:10:03 (#8)
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Miroslav Suchy

<miroslav at suchy.cz>
570 4011
Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a): zobrazit citaci
>So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers >on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app. >Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.
Done. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Addresses&type=revision&diff=1524281&oldid=1513066 Mirek

13.11.2017 06:56:17 (#9)
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Tobias Zwick

<osm at westnordost.de>
3
Hi Martin Understood, thanks for the link. I will post on the SK mailing list as well then. :-) Cheers Tobias On 13/11/2017 08:51, Martin Ždila wrote: zobrazit citaci
> Hi Tobias, > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Tobias Zwick <osm at westnordost.de > <mailto:osm at westnordost.de>> wrote: > > Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards > to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers? > > > In Slovakia we have so far imported housenumbers of many places but also > many are still missing. > > We have a wiki page related to this > at http://wiki.freemap.sk/SupisneCislaKapor. > > Recently a new source of addresses has opened for us so we are planning > to do another big import. You can read it > ad https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osm_sk/nV3b2l7ZSnI > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osm_sk/nV3b2l7ZSnI> (also in > Slovak language). > > For more details please ask on osm_sk at googlegroups.com > <mailto:osm_sk at googlegroups.com> because I am directly not working on it. > > Best regards > -- > Martin Ždila <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/*Martin*> > OZ Freemap Slovakia > tel:+421-908-363-848 > mailto:martin.zdila at freemap.sk <mailto:martin.zdila at freemap.sk> > http://www.freemap.sk/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-cz mailing list > Talk-cz at openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz >

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